Heer Litzen identification

Gday All,
I am in two minds re these two Heer Officers Litzen.
The first (pink) I believe to be Heer General Staff but may be Veterinary.
The second (orange) I feel is Heer Engineer Officers Academy but may be Ordnance.
Is there any way I can confirm these assumptions or could they represent both options?
Any assistance identifying these would be appreciated.

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Thank you gents
All the best
Dave


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