Bronze FLL IAB
Here's another IAB,a bronze this time. Stewy
Archive for November, 2008
Late war? Heer Infanteria Schultrsticks
Hello friends collectors, :)
please opinions for this. I am not heer collector. I think that they have late war construction, easy and cheap.
I am sorry for big photos, but I like close-up details :)
Thanks all ;)
please opinions for this. I am not heer collector. I think that they have late war construction, easy and cheap.
I am sorry for big photos, but I like close-up details :)
Thanks all ;)
The M31 Messkit and Wartime Variants
Hello Gentlemen,
As Moderator of this subforum dedicated to the Wehrmacht Equipments & Accessories, i decided to make this "sticky " thread in order to help out our fellow members interested in the WWII german messkit. I know that some of you do own tremendous examples of this very common item, but i also know that some other collectors don't know anything about them. I don't want you fellow members to get me wrong, this is not a lesson, i'm not a teacher and you're not students, i just thought that as a fieldgear collector & moderator i could spot the main differences & variants produced during the short history of the M31 Messkit and share the all thing with you....
The M31 Messkit (170 cl)
1) 1930/31 to 1940 : All parts made of aluminium (excepted the wire handle)
(It was adopted in 1931 but the production started earlier, around 1930)
Dark Feldgrau factory paint
2) 1940 to 1943 : All parts made of aluminium (excepted the wire handle and the handle riveted to the lid/plate.). Major fall of the production in 1942 and 1943 to promote the messkit made of steel. Dark Feldgrau factory paint to Feldgrau factory paint...many shades...to olive green.
3) 1942 to 1944 : All parts made of steel. The interior and/or the exterior are painted, lacquered or enameled, mostly depending on the manufacturer.
4) 1944 to 1945 : All parts made of aluminium (excepted the wire handle, the handle riveted to the lid and the two metal parts that hold the wire handle), + inner plate. Many shades of paint.
5) Late war messkit 1944-45 with inner plate made of aluminium
6) Steel messkit with red lacquered interior
7) Main differences between a prewar (left) and a late war aluminium messkit : 3 soup ration marks stamped on the front of the prewar messkit, none for the late war one. The top is the body is completly folded on the prewar messkit, not one the late war one. The metal parts that hold the wire handle are aluminium molded ones on the prewar messkit, they are flat and made of steel on the late war one...(and the factory applied paint of course....:D)
It does exist a messkit made of aluminium usually without paint applied on it, that has no handle riveted to the lid. Some collectors think that this messkit, that includes metal parts produced by a legit wartime maker (MN45), is the very late war last variant of the M31 Messkit. I do not subscribe to this theory. I would rather think that this very simplified messkit may have been produced right after the war for the refugees back to Germany, for the civil market or the PoWs.
On some period pictures, one can see another types of messkits hanging from the breadbag, or fastened to a combat pack.
- M10 Messkit : the WWI Imperial Army Messkit (250 cl). Its use will survive the 1918 defeat, and this type of messkit was reissued to national-socialist paramilitary and political organisations (prewar, the WSS were issued such a type).
- M10 Messkit variant : introduced by the Reichswehr. The carrying strap is always positioned horizontally due to a change in the handle shape
- Italian messkit. Made of aluminium (no factory applied paint), two wire handles, one's on the lid at the rear, one's on the body for carrying. Those reissued to the german army were usually painted green. Two metal loops on the front for the carrying strap.
Of course the period pictures show more things, but these three types make up 90% of what is visible on them. I posted only pics showing M31 messkits, but if some of you are interested to see the "Late War" variant with no handle/no paint, the M10 messkit, the M10 variant or the painted green italian messkit, don't hesitate to ask...
Up to you to post your best examples or best/unusual markings
Thanks for reading and i hope that this sticky thread which is useless for some will be useful for the others.
JPhilip.
As Moderator of this subforum dedicated to the Wehrmacht Equipments & Accessories, i decided to make this "sticky " thread in order to help out our fellow members interested in the WWII german messkit. I know that some of you do own tremendous examples of this very common item, but i also know that some other collectors don't know anything about them. I don't want you fellow members to get me wrong, this is not a lesson, i'm not a teacher and you're not students, i just thought that as a fieldgear collector & moderator i could spot the main differences & variants produced during the short history of the M31 Messkit and share the all thing with you....
The M31 Messkit (170 cl)
1) 1930/31 to 1940 : All parts made of aluminium (excepted the wire handle)
(It was adopted in 1931 but the production started earlier, around 1930)
Dark Feldgrau factory paint
2) 1940 to 1943 : All parts made of aluminium (excepted the wire handle and the handle riveted to the lid/plate.). Major fall of the production in 1942 and 1943 to promote the messkit made of steel. Dark Feldgrau factory paint to Feldgrau factory paint...many shades...to olive green.
3) 1942 to 1944 : All parts made of steel. The interior and/or the exterior are painted, lacquered or enameled, mostly depending on the manufacturer.
4) 1944 to 1945 : All parts made of aluminium (excepted the wire handle, the handle riveted to the lid and the two metal parts that hold the wire handle), + inner plate. Many shades of paint.
5) Late war messkit 1944-45 with inner plate made of aluminium
6) Steel messkit with red lacquered interior
7) Main differences between a prewar (left) and a late war aluminium messkit : 3 soup ration marks stamped on the front of the prewar messkit, none for the late war one. The top is the body is completly folded on the prewar messkit, not one the late war one. The metal parts that hold the wire handle are aluminium molded ones on the prewar messkit, they are flat and made of steel on the late war one...(and the factory applied paint of course....:D)
It does exist a messkit made of aluminium usually without paint applied on it, that has no handle riveted to the lid. Some collectors think that this messkit, that includes metal parts produced by a legit wartime maker (MN45), is the very late war last variant of the M31 Messkit. I do not subscribe to this theory. I would rather think that this very simplified messkit may have been produced right after the war for the refugees back to Germany, for the civil market or the PoWs.
On some period pictures, one can see another types of messkits hanging from the breadbag, or fastened to a combat pack.
- M10 Messkit : the WWI Imperial Army Messkit (250 cl). Its use will survive the 1918 defeat, and this type of messkit was reissued to national-socialist paramilitary and political organisations (prewar, the WSS were issued such a type).
- M10 Messkit variant : introduced by the Reichswehr. The carrying strap is always positioned horizontally due to a change in the handle shape
- Italian messkit. Made of aluminium (no factory applied paint), two wire handles, one's on the lid at the rear, one's on the body for carrying. Those reissued to the german army were usually painted green. Two metal loops on the front for the carrying strap.
Of course the period pictures show more things, but these three types make up 90% of what is visible on them. I posted only pics showing M31 messkits, but if some of you are interested to see the "Late War" variant with no handle/no paint, the M10 messkit, the M10 variant or the painted green italian messkit, don't hesitate to ask...
Up to you to post your best examples or best/unusual markings
Thanks for reading and i hope that this sticky thread which is useless for some will be useful for the others.
JPhilip.
Ost front? Mk IV
I'm not sure where this is but it's impressive anyway.
Early SA SHirt
This is an interesting early SA shirt with typical flat silver buttons but appears never to have an RZM tag or insignia except the armband. Also has the shoulder strap cloth retainer loop. It has numerous period repairs, fading and wear.
SA 4 pocket Summer weight Sturmf. Tunic
Here's a nice RZM tagged summer weight 4 pocket SA Sturmfuehrer Tunic. Missing the unit tab and a button but otherwise complete including old fighter cuff stripes for 1929. The wide officer's belt shadow can be seen in the rear view photo.
RZM tag is faded out and illegible. Button are silver pebbled - unusual but period and occasionally also seen on brown shirts. There are belt hooks attached to internal straps and fit through slots in the back waist area.
The unit tab is missing but not impossible to find.
RZM tag is faded out and illegible. Button are silver pebbled - unusual but period and occasionally also seen on brown shirts. There are belt hooks attached to internal straps and fit through slots in the back waist area.
The unit tab is missing but not impossible to find.
Was in the woods today, what a big surprise!!!
Went out for a winter walk today and discovered a nice surprise. It's well off the beaten track which has helped to preserve it. There's non of the usual modern graffiti, vandalism or rubbish you usually expect. Venturing inside there was a great ambience of early 1940's, a trip back in time. It's around 1 mile from a former airfield and scattered around it are the foundations with steps for nissen huts and near are a couple of small hand dug shelters with metal girders still standing upright that would have supported the roofs. Sadly for photography the light was very poor today so only got a few shots of this.
LUCKYSTRIKE
LUCKYSTRIKE
Unmarked victory model
This is an early S&W victory model revolver,unusual in that it was Navy owned but never property marked.The black shoulder holster was given to me when I was a lad,by my neighbor who carried in while in Viet Nam.
Question british marking?
Hello sirs,I am a beginning collector in military and have alot of american items and a few british,was wondering what this mark is on a ww1 helmet,it looks to be a british helmet.Thanks for any info.
Austrian Pair
Here's my first Austrian Group (Pair). A Hindenberg Cross with swords and a medal that I don't remember the name (Help Please!!!).
:) Doc
:) Doc
-
Meie proektid
-
Partnerid
